1. Extend our discussion about deficit and asset approaches. Feel free to write about whatever moves you...some possibilities:
- Have you ever seen deficit approaches in action in school (either as a student or a grown-up)?
- Comment on some facet of Ruby Payne's work
- What are somer strategies for cultivating asset-based thinking as a teacher (and a human)?
Note: You don't need to post on both...pick whichever you feel like thinking/writing about!
Okay so I am still not over Ruby Payne getting away with publishing a book with NO SOURCES. Like even if I agreed with everything she said, even if she wasn't so wrong, I still don't understand how someone can write a whole book of things they pulled out of their head with absolutely no evidence and, not only have it published, but have it celebrated as some groundbreaking creation. It is absolutely boggling to me. No one, from the day she started writing to the day it hit store bookshelves, said, "Hey, how do we know any of this is true?" No one ever thought to question her?
ReplyDeleteIt makes it so obvious that the only people reading her books are people who are so alienated from the realities of poverty they are willing to believe nearly anything. All poor people sort through garbage bins for food? Okay. All poor people are possessive in their relationships? Okay.
And this DRIVES ME CRAZY because there is no way that only poor people, or even mostly poor people, are possessive or controlling; even thinking about her writing that and other people believing it makes me mad. How far from real life do you have to be to think all criminals, all controlling boyfriends, all people who turn the TV up loud, are poor?
Poor people do care about language and education; the fact that they speak in a language Ruby Payne is too lazy to learn does not change the fact that it is equally legitimate and valid to any high-class way of speaking. Plenty of poor kids care about school. Plenty of poor parents help their kids with their homework.
I do not have a good way to end this except by saying that this woman drives me up a wall.
Taylor Petty
I think professor said she publishes the book herself.
DeleteIt is shocking to read Ruby Payne’s work and know that over 800,000 copies of her book have sold, and is even translated into Spanish. She says that people are classified in one of three categories: in poverty, middle class, or wealth. The checklist for the rules in poverty are negative and criminal. She mentions that jail is a part of their life and they cannot avoid it, and that being a person in poverty you need to fight because words cannot be properly used. This is opposed to the middle class who can use words to negotiate. She just made this claim that because someone does not have money, they cannot use their words and have to use fists. She also lists behavior that is related to poverty, as if people from the other categories would not behave this way. Some examples are children of poverty have to physically fight to survive, hands are always on someone else, and cannot follow directions.
ReplyDeleteThe book is called A Framework for Understanding Poverty, yet it seems like it is just a validation of negative stereotypes of poor people for those who are not. There is no supporting evidence for her claims, and because of its popularity, it seems no one has questioned it. I’m wondering if people believe that every person who is in poverty fits into the categories that she describes. I can’t imagine being a teacher and looking at my students and families as criminal or negative solely because they come from a low-income household. In a critique, it's mentioned that there are many people with low income that do work hard and are not criminal, and the book does not mention it at all.
Kim
DeletePAULA HERE: This class was my first time hearing about “The Case of Ruby Payne”. I plan on reading more about her and maybe even reading the book. I do not agree with her ideas of how to approach poverty in the classroom. I do think that as an educator it is important to understand students’ backgrounds and daily struggles, if any. She mentioned some points that could be true for people who live in poverty but those same points can overlap for a person in middle class or vice versa. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I am going to assume that she is a privileged white lady who is unaware how to actually “survive in poverty”. It has sparked my interest to want to become more educated on research-based information about poverty. Ruby probably should have used sources or even had her book reviewed to avoid many of the flaws in her writing. To me, the reading made me feel uneasy because I did not want to assume that she was racist or even shining a negative light onto the lives of people living in poverty without reading the entire book. It sucks that the audience who would be interested in reading her book with a title like “A Framework for Understanding Poverty” would be reading with good intentions and her framework is not solid. As we mentioned in class, her writing allows the reader to place the blame on the victim instead of correcting or reevaluating teaching methods
ReplyDeleteI feel as though teachers should teach about social justice, to an extent. The teacher doesnt need to necessarily talk in depth about it everyday, but it should be incorporated in some fashion. The students we teach live in a society where they even see first hand the injustices, who has the advantage, and who had the disadvantage in society. They are in class or will be in class with people who may not necessarily look like them and its important for them to know that even though everyone should be treated equally thats not always how things are in our current society. Its like you want to prepare them with the basics. A simple activity to help the students learn about social injustice is having them identify sentences that are facts or an opinion. They know that a fact is something that is true and can be proven and that an opinion is something someone thinks. As they get older they will decide whether they would want to fight for the injustices by rallying and/or through other means.
ReplyDelete-JoAnn
Sheryon:
ReplyDeleteI was working in an after school program that was geared towards children with behavior and/or mental problems. Since this was how all the children were, I think that many of the teachers and volunteers (I feel I did it a few times) would look at the children as if they needed extra help. These children were very capable to do the job with a little guidance, but I think that when people see that there is something going on with a child that they are helpless. Instead of praising what the children could do many of them dwelled on what they couldn’t do. Even when I first started some of the teachers and volunteers told me all the problems that I would have to deal with because the children “couldn’t do…”. Because of this type of thinking many of the children knew that could get away with things and could get certain volunteers to basically do their homework. What I feel would have made this program more affecting is if people were more open to highlighting the good things that the kids can do instead of the negative. One thing that I am worried about when we start to teach is to be conscious about how I am treating the kids. Making sure to not just dwell on the bad and to make sure to show other the good things that the kids can achieve.
I was literally shocked to hear about Ruby Payne's work and the fact that there are 1.8 million copies out there, I am almost speechless. This was my first time ever hearing about her. I do not believe that she is right in the way she classifies people and her approach to poverty. Some of her statements were so bizarre that I thought this was some kind of dark humor in a way. I would also like to know where she founded some of the things she states (poor people always xyz). It had me furious. I did some digging of myself and I wanted to see the criticisms people had of her work. There are tons and I mean T O N S of articles out there who are very against her work, but there are also T O N S that are for it. Very interesting. I found an interesting one that talks about poverty being a stereotype. I do believe the way that Ruby Payne's work comes across as a stereotype. When she states what poor people do and makes the assumptions that poor people cannot obtain a credit card and outlandish accusations, angers me. Not sure how anyone agrees with her.
ReplyDeleteSierra here ^^
DeleteIn our 626 class we did an assignment where we discussed and analyzed our funds of knowledge and what we bring to the table with those experiences. A lot of the time we view the home lives of our students as a negative thing or we don’t appreciate the value of the positive assets of the children bring to the table. The students also bring things from their past to the classroom and those should be celebrated not looked down upon. In the RTR program the classes focus on helping us be culturally responsive and asset-based thinking is a great way to ensure that we are doing that. We can make sure that we relating the material to the student’s different lives. It is important for a student to feel represented or respected in the classroom, this helps them feel safe and understood. It helps the students to be interested in the material too. Using asset based thinking can do wonders for our classrooms. If we focus on the strengths of the students, they will start to believe in themselves and once a child believes they can do something there is no stopping them. Overall, I think a teacher, or human, can cultivate asset-based thinking by checking your stereotypes at the door. No matter what the situation, it is important to get to know the student, or the human, for who they are, not their pre conceived notions. This will help you learn about them and see what they bring to the table as assets not as liabilities.
ReplyDeleteThis is Hannah ^^
DeleteI think everyone could benefit from trying to practice asset-based thinking. In day to day life, simply acknowledging the potential someone can possess is the act of considering their assets and not what they lack. This can and should be used when teaching as well. If teachers practice with a mindset that each of their students has potential and some kind of talent then they can go forth using asset-based thinking. The deficit approach in education sets students up for failure because expectations aren’t being set for them to rise to. While children should learn how to cope with their mistakes and adverse circumstances, they should also be pushed to meet expectations in their formative years so they can grow and develop. If students are not expected to meet and exceed goals then it is more likely that they will not.
ReplyDeleteAs I was reading through some of Ruby Payne's book, honestly at this point I don’t even know what to think. One of the biggest issues that I have is that her categories (poor, middle, and upper class), are broad and make generalizations/ stereotypes that are dangerous to people of color. For example, I read the Ch.6 Support Systems, and one of the examples used was "LaKeitha" who had 4 siblings, her mom worked at Burger King, and was pulled over by the police and therefore, couldn’t meet with the teacher in the morning. First of all, I don’t why she chose that name for the student, and secondly, not all “poor” people have those types of issues. I put “poor” in quotation marks because she seems to suggest that poor people are primarily people of color that are criminals. Honestly, I feel like Ruby Payne has very little cultural competence. Although the book does have some strategies such as allowing extra time to complete homework, I just can’t get on board with it because with the way it’s written, it sounds judgmental and I don’t trust her motives/intentions.
ReplyDeleteAnother one of my biggest issues is the behaviors that she says students from backgrounds of poverty exhibit, and makes it seem like only “poor” students show those behaviors such as cheating, disrespect, not completing the full assignment, and being unorganized (pg.80 in pdf.). I have worked with students from many different backgrounds and socioeconomic statuses and those behaviors are not specific to what she defines as “poor” children.
I hope that her book is used less and less overtime and that eventually enough people realize how inaccurate the information is. Additionally, based on what I have read, she doesn’t seem to address the racial history of America and how that has caused systemic poverty specifically for people of color. Because of America’s racist history, we can’t talk about education and schools without discussing race and policies designed to keep people of color unempowered.
Ruby Payne's work also made me incredibly mad and confused. On one side, I really didn't understand how her work could be so popular and used in schools when it is so obviously classist and racist. But on the other hand, it made me really sad to acknowledge that we all probably know people who think like Ruby does purely because of their lack of experience or exposure to people in poverty. I really don't know how I would react if a school I was working in used Ruby's materials in trainings because it was just so horrid. I do agree that being in poverty causes you to think differently, but that does not mean that you are eating out of dumpsters or more prone to criminal activity like she said. Her work just made me incredibly mad at how harmful it really is to so many people.
ReplyDeleteBrittney here:
ReplyDeleteAfter leaving Monday’s class, I went home and watched an interview featuring Ruby Payne and some of her reflections on Youtube. I was not surprised by many of her responses. I do not agree with any of her ideas on how to approach and view poverty in the classroom. I personally feel as if she is being extremely stereotypical. I took some of her statements quite personal because as a new teacher I look to veteran teachers and other personnel’s in the education field for advice and wisdom. Despite us all having our own opinion, she failed at conducting any research to support her statements. Thankfully, I share different views as her and will never classify my students because of their SES or appearance. I cannot imagine anyone agreeing with her.
Here is the interview link in case anyone is interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA_q835eZ_4
James Here, responding to #2:
ReplyDeleteI mentioned this in class the other day about teaching in a social justice-minded way and I really dig the argumentative aspect of established facts (that are debatable and aren't 100% proven). The prominent example Bust-ED Pencils gave was "Columbus on Trial" where the class, using primary and secondary sources as 'evidence', were to argue whether Columbus was guilty or not. Giving students a chance to debate and argue things (respectfully) as Justin mentioned, with a teacher moderating and introducing facts in between to give greater context, allows for not only a greater degree of development to argumentation and research skills but makes the students more conscious of their opinions. Add the fact that this can be done in all subjects (Math, Science, Literature, etc), any teacher has the power to compel their students to think on whether they may need to rethink their perception of things.
After all, as Kurt said, there's always new information being founded and it never hurts to change your opinion on something.
One of my favorite teachers and leaders has a ted talk about teaching "taboo" topics. She's a teaching tolerance award winner and awesome social justice teacher!
ReplyDeleteIf you're interested in watching it (you should!) here's the link: https://www.ted.com/talks/liz_kleinrock_how_to_teach_kids_to_talk_about_taboo_topics
I think teaching social justice is extremely important. One quote that Liz says in the video above is "teaching kids about equity in schools is not teaching them what to think. It is about giving them the tools and strategies and language and opportunities to practice how to think." I think this is essential to teaching through a social justice lense. As said in class, we need to show students that they are able to stand up for what they believe is important and right.
I think one way we can teach social justice in our classrooms is through our lessons and "teachable" moments that may happen in the classroom. While some may think teaching social justice is too liberal, i think this is a decision we must make as teachers. By teaching things such as race, diversity and inclusive we are building our students toolbox for life outside of school. As teachers, we are teaching them curriculum while building our students characters. Teaching social justice doesn't have to be radical. It can be as simple as teaching our students about equity and injustice and why it is important. While teaching social justice, it is really important to know your community and keep administration in the loop in case there is any backlash. I think it is also important to build a strong classroom community before teaching hard topics because not everyone is going to have the same opinions.
- Oops sorry, Paislee!
DeleteOne deficit-based asset I have seen in school is not utilizing the students who can't seem to sit still. I think about this topic because it was mentioned in my RTR interview. At the time I couldn't think of anything that didn't seem punitive. Another example might be looking down on parents who don't work. An asset would be trying to get them more involved possibly in the class, especially if they lived close to the school. Even if they couldn't make it to the school, they could be a presence at the bus stop, chaperone school trips, or something else where their time would be valued. Strategies for asset based thinking would be to make at least one positive statement to parents and students during an interaction. It could be pointing out something a parent’s child does well or encouraging the child to continue doing something well.
ReplyDeleteTrue story: When my mom wasn't working she volunteered at Headstart. She volunteered so often she ended up working for Headstart.
Andrea
DeleteEarlier today in our class with Mrs. Larson, we talked about building differentiation into our lesson plans so that students can complete tasks and learn new ideas in whatever way that they learn best. I think the best strategy she taught us today was this (in relation to lesson planning): Always keep in mind that your goal is that every student understands your objective- regardless of how they get to that understanding.
ReplyDeleteSome students may have strengths in the arts while others are more logical thinkers. Instead of constantly making the artsy kids write reports or forcing the logical thinkers to do hands-on projects, why not differentiate your lesson so that the students can learn using their own strengths? This is a great example of asset-based thinking for teachers.
Another thought is regarding students whose first language is something other than english. There are a couple schools in the RPS system with high Latinx populations. If you’re thinking with an asset-based approach, you might try to let those kids share about their home culture, or even include spanish learning throughout your lessons. That way, everyone will see the benefits of working with people from other cultures, and begin to see one other’s differences as something they can learn from.
I think the best way to cultivate asset-based thinking is through a passive approach. If other teachers (or parents, friends, etc), hear you speaking highly about your kid’s strengths instead of dwelling on their weaknesses, especially if your approach is proving to be more successful than their, they will probably begin to self-check and make changes with their own thinking.
Sharese:
ReplyDeleteSocial justice is a topic that is uncomfortable for many because society has created it to be negative or all about race when it involves more components. In reality, the issues around social justice requires social competence and choosing to be informed about your student’s background. I also feel as if social justice is only discussed in urban school settings when suburban schools face the same challenges. I understand that teachers or others in society may not feel that this topic is worth stressing, but I think it determines your success in the classroom. Social justice is all about advocating for what’s right your students, families and yourself.
I also think another component is being aware of what we as teachers bring to the table and the baggage that we carry. Social justice is a sensitive topic to address because biases are exposed, and disagreements are brought to the light. I don’t feel that social justice must be discussed all day, but students should have information incorporated into lesson plans that will allow them to be aware of what is occurring in their society. Overall, I understand why people may feel that teachers should not focus on the topic of social justice, but I also feel like it can’t be ignored.
Asset based thinking requires one to approach a given subject with a clean slate. In the field of education, the teacher would develop learning strategies with no pre-conceived notions or prejudices. Each student will be assessed on an individual basis. Asset based thinking encourages relationship building and cultural sensitivity. As the teacher learns the student, they are able to pick up on what the student needs/ requires for success. This takes a lot of effort and commitment.
ReplyDeleteI can understand if an individual has an inclination towards deficit based thinking. In today’s society, we are trained to be proactive instead of reactive. Deficit based thinking (in an effort to be proactive) creates formulas for dealing with undesirable behaviors based on broad conclusions and stereotypes. Using these formulas takes the nurturing or relationship building aspect out of teaching.
I’m not surprised by Ruby Payne’s book. However, I don’t feel that this book was written for everyone. This is a “framework for understanding poverty”. Obviously this book was written for those classified as middle class or wealthy who have little to no understanding of poverty. This is not to say that all who are middle class or wealthy are disconnected or unaware of the struggles of the impoverished.
I’m sure there are some policy makers and curriculum creators who share Payne’s point of view – seemingly classist, racist, and sexist. This is scary. The real question is - do her methods work? Did Payne create a formula for educators who are disconnected and unaware for finding success in the classroom? If her methods work and her heart is not right does it still count?…So many questions
Kira P.
DeleteAs a society and within our educational institutions, discussions about bias, diversity, discrimination, and social justice tend to happen in middle and high schools. We've somehow decided that little kids can't understand these complex topics, or we want to delay exposing them to injustices as long as possible (even though not all children have the luxury of being shielded from injustice).
ReplyDeleteHowever, young children have a keen awareness of and passion for fairness. They demand right over wrong, just over unjust. And they notice differences without apology or discomfort.
Elementary school can be a time to introduce students to these discussions, as long as teachers have the right tools and resources and use appropriate language and activities. Teaching about these concepts can be rich and engaging for children, laying the groundwork for more sophisticated understanding when they move into middle and high school.
My suggestion is to incorporate children's literature that can be read aloud and independently to approach the topic of bias, diversity, and social justice. These includes books about people who are different than your students, an affirmation of their identity, or one that exposes bias or shares stories of people who stood up to injustice. I think that children's literature is a very appropriate way to address a topic or lead into a discussion.
Personally I just do not know how Ruby Payne was allowed to publish that book! It was internally full of racist comments and stereotypes and she did not even have any sources to back up what she was saying. So I am just in shock that her book was able to become published and then so popular and used in our school systems... This is the problem I believe everyone wants some perfect formula for human beings but it doesn’t work like that. Someone may be poor but rich in other aspects of life. This is were we go wrong in our schools, just focusing on what they child is lacking. Instead we should be look at what that lil bits of gold that child is bring to our class and then build off of those and help that child grow and feel good about them selves. I think this would encourage students in school and improve their participation and grades, if their teachers was focusing on the awesome things that student brings to the classroom. That book made it seem like these poor people were almost a different breed of people and that’s just so not true, we are all humans, who have the same feelings and have the same basic needs. I do not believe we need to have guidelines for different classes but the world just needs to change the way it sees classes. No longer see a rich or poor person but just a person. I believe this is how we need to look at our class as teachers, yes it’s important to know your students backgrounds so you can help them to your best ability but don’t use those things to judge them.
ReplyDeleteJustin here:
ReplyDeleteIn thinking about the popcast I had considered the hoop that need to be jumped through when attempting to “Rethink School”, the biggest being student’s families who may not support this teaching in all facets. For example the trial against Christopher Columbus may reveal some facts that some parents do not want their children to know about him, in order to keep the vail intact.
To attempt to get over hurdles like this a teacher must be upfront with parents and administration about what they will be attempting to do. This way they can have support from both fronts. That is not saying a teacher should ease into social justice teaching to get students to understand the norm of having it in the classroom. For example as opposed to having a Black History Month or Women's Month, celebrate their accomplishments throughout the year. This country was not just built by white men and this needs to be understood by students so they can feel validated about who they are as opposed to feeling like a second class citizen. This is an approach that no one can oppose.
Yes! Deficit mindsets are so pervasive in schools! In serving 2 years in a high needs school with majority students of color, I had multiple conversations with certain teachers who wanted their students to succeed. However, some would also continually fall back on deficit thinking to explain their students' academic engagement and content knowledge.
ReplyDeleteDrawing from dworin et al. and their research model critiquing Payne's work, they identified (and coded) a dense amount of “truth claims” about kids living in poverty filled with contradictory propositional content. The authors shed light on these aspects of Payne's work that have been countered and disproved by multiple contemporary social science literature on poverty, race, class and culture. They showed how her deficit mindsets rest in her ability to communicate these "truth claims."
After reading their critique, I reflected on how I saw deficit thinking maintain in the school I worked in. I could see a thread of deficit rationalization through teachers identifying where the self sufficiency "to learn" was lacking or not being reinforced. Rather than being student centered and resourceful, here the act of placing blame (within other actors in school) was central to the allocation and identification of student deficits. "Oh it's not my problem anymore." Almost like they used blame tactics to deflect teaching responsibility. I found that Payne's diagnosis and prescription of teaching in poverty followed this disbelief in students I observed in conversations with some teachers at my school. As much as deficit thinking can challenged (and should), I found it almost as equally pervasive.
Seth
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